IN CONVERSATION WITH VIKTOR & ROLF

interview by MAREK BARTEK
all looks VIKTOR & ROLF

Only a few can be described as greats in the fashion industry, but when it comes to VIKTOR HORSTING and ROLF SNOEREN, this adjective is spot on. Since establishing their brand VIKTOR & ROLF in 1993, they have become prominent figures of the European avant-garde scene, pushing the limits of how we view fashion.

Looking back at your early days at the Academy of Art and Design in Arnhem and just after, what were the foundational ideas and emotions that first drove you to work together?

ROLF SNOEREN: I actually wanted to be an illustrator. It was never my goal to have a fashion label, and the same goes for Viktor. After we graduated, we participated in the Festival de Hyères competition, which was a real trial to see if we could work together. After we won, people kind of assumed we would start a label. And though it was not our intention at all, what we created together had added value. It was just such a natural process, and I’ve never really looked back or considered doing something on my own.

How is it now, after all this time?

We’ve become one in a certain way. We’ve developed our language together, so it’s difficult now to say, “This is yours, this is mine.” There’s no division in who does what. Especially because, in our case, we are both the creatives. I think a lot of creative people can feel lonely at times, so for me, being together is really helpful. When you encounter challenges, you can support each other. When one is feeling low, the other one can take over, and also just having fun and sharing a sense of humour is easier when there are two of you.

Your work has blurred the lines between fashion and fine art since the beginning. You often defy practicality in favour of provocation. In those early years, did you feel like the industry understood what you were doing? Or did you consciously position yourself outside the mainstream by following your own vision?

In the beginning, I don’t even think we knew what our vision was. It took us quite a few years to understand what we were doing. We were never deliberately against the mainstream. We were just doing our own thing and inventing our own language. Ours is a story in retrospect. Looking back, people know what we did. But at the time, there was little to no recognition. It felt like we had to knock on every door because they were all closed. We had to force ourselves onto the stage, which was quite frustrating. But those years were also pivotal for us.

And then, there came a moment when things started to shift, and success was just so sudden. It almost felt like we needed to protect ourselves. There is a strange mechanism in wanting to be recognised and then being recognised. In the end, the primary goal is to be creative and do something people have never seen before. When you get sidetracked and play the game too much, there’s no time to actually be creative.

I think it’s safe to say we’ve seen things from you that we’ve never seen before. We can go all the way back to 1999 and the Russian Doll collection or even something more recent like your 2023 Late Stage Capitalism Waltz collection — these are extremely conceptual shows. At the same time, you also do more commercially accessible lines. How do you balance the two, especially in terms of the demands of the fashion industry today?

It really is a balancing act. Our couture can be extreme; but at the same time, we have such a huge success with our fragrances. It’s about finding that sweet spot where you can sustain yourself between something very creative and something commercial. You have to find your own path. Sometimes, you think you’ve gone too far one way, but it’s only by exploring that you find what works for you.

In the 2000s and 2010s, you were doing all the collections — ready-to-wear, menswear, pre-fall, you name it. And then in 2015, you made the decision to focus only on couture, which was the case up until this year when ready-to-wear returned to the spotlight. Why did you decide to focus solely on couture at the time and then return to ready-to-wear?

VIKTOR HORSTING: The way we work today is very different to before. Back in the day, the collections used to be much bigger. We were doing all the required seasonal collections, but it just didn’t make us happy. And so, we started doing things our own way. For example, we decided to produce everything ourselves. And the collections were also much, much smaller — we really focused on the execution.

With that being said, we also felt that there are a lot of ideas in couture that are adaptable to ready-to-wear. So, we decided to just go for it and see how we can translate these to ready-to-wear. It’s really been an experiment.

How were those years for you when you focused only on couture?

RS: I think it allowed us to go back to where we started. Our first couture shows in 1998 and 1999 were the most quintessential versions of who we are and how we are at our best. So, in 2015, we just wanted to go back to that vision of ourselves.

Would you say that you still approach the creative process in the same way that you always have? Or have you developed some new methodologies?

VH: I’d say we still work exactly as we used to. What has changed, however, are the tools. We used to do everything ourselves. Now, we have a team, but also our tempo has changed. We are able to work much quicker — not only thanks to the team but also because of experience. Other than that, our way of working and inspiration are the same as day one.

When it comes to inspiration, what subjects are you drawn to exploring?

RS: We are mostly interested in the stories we’re telling, and then the clothes are almost actors in that story.

VH: And then, stylistically and aesthetically, we’re drawn to opposite ends. On the one hand, we love Baroque glamour, maximalism, fashion with a capital F, and on the other, we’re very conceptual and minimal. We describe our style as minimal Baroque. It’s opulent but also very rigorous. And we really believe that beauty doesn’t just lie in a beautiful shape or colour but in a beautiful idea, too.

You entered the Paris couture scene in the late ’90s, and that was a turning point when it comes to international recognition. What did it take to present your ideas on a global stage?

VH: I think it was an interesting mix of ambition and naivety. We felt very strongly about creating something that we wanted to communicate with the world, but there was no plan whatsoever. The only plan was to express ourselves.

And, of course, we felt very strongly about fashion. We’re trained as fashion designers, so we wanted to work in the field. We found each other in our shared ambition and desire to create along similar lines. However, it took us years to find the focus, to understand what we needed to do, and that couture was probably the best platform to do it.

Do you still remember the response to your first show in Paris?

RS: Our first couture show was in 1998. What I remember from that show was the buzz. Suddenly, we were so aware that people were watching, and then everybody came to our second show. There was definitely a moment after our second show — the Atomic Bomb collection — when we really felt things were shifting, almost one day to the next.

You still come back to Paris for couture, but you’re based in Amsterdam. Would you say your Dutch roots influence your work, even today when you have a global reach?

VH: I think there is a certain detachment in what we do that could be traced back to the fact that we’re Dutch. Other than that, it’s hard to say what our “Dutch roots” are because when we were growing up and studying there was no fashion media and no fashion industry. There were two stores in the country, one magazine and that was it. We come from nothing fashion-wise, which also gives us a very particular perspective on fashion.

RS: And what is so amazing about fashion is that it’s one of a few universal languages that we speak. You can have an American accent or a French or Japanese accent, but we all speak the same fashion language, and that’s quite special.

What do you think of the current state of the Dutch fashion scene?

VH:Oh, there’s so much more. I mean, now there is a scene, period. Personally, I don’t feel particularly like I’m part of it, but there are magazines, brands, young designers, more established designers and so on. It’s an ecosystem that has flourished over the past decades, and I think that’s a good thing.

I think that maybe even if you don’t feel like you’re a part of it, you very much are. What you’ve built is a legacy in the Dutch fashion world. Especially now, when fashion moves so fast, remaining relevant and bringing something unique is very special. What is your view on legacy and creating something that is lasting?

VH: To be completely honest, that’s not really what we think about when we make something. We always get excited to create something new every season. The fashion system works both for and against us because if there weren’t deadlines for new shows or collections, I think it would take us much longer. In a good way, the system kind of forces us to be productive.

When it comes to legacy, it’s not something I think about much, although I do like to show our work in museums because we get to see a selection of everything we’ve done and how it works together. Even if some collections are pretty old, they might have a different meaning in today’s setting. I like that a lot, but it was never on my mind when we started out.

RS: Nothing is eternal. A few weeks ago, we did a talk at a university in Milan for about 800 people. They started with an introductory clip of our shows. It took a few minutes, and it got me really emotional just looking at it. I didn’t expect for it to do something to me, but that moment made me realise how much we have achieved.

TEAM CREDITS:

model ROOS SCHREINER at MOUNA MODELS
photography DION BAL
styling MAREK BARTEK
hair WIARDI KOOPMEINERS
makeup CARLOS SAIDEL
nails DANIËL SMEDEMAN
production AYA OPPENBERG
videography THOMAS NUIJTEN
photography assistants EUGENE BERKOVSKI and ANGELINA NIKALAYEVA
styling assistant JULIETTE KOK
hair assistant RICK VAN EKEREN
editor TIMOTEJ LETONJA
special thanks to RIJSKMUSEUM, CAFÉ NOL & ALESSIO COLLUCI